Innovative thinking... Non Player Characters with A.I.

For discussions on misc rp tools, hubs, etc.

My opinion on A.I. NPC Bots in Gor is:

Would be awesome!
7
35%
Would be awesome!
7
35%
Idea Sucks, I want to RP only real people
3
15%
Idea Sucks, I want to RP only real people
3
15%
 
Total votes: 20
Hawt Sommer

Innovative thinking... Non Player Characters with A.I.

Postby Hawt Sommer » Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:15 pm

You've seen them in some of the most exciting Single person player games out there. They are part of grand scripted plots and add to the fantasy that you are playing in that can be some of the most fun times you can have with a computer (besides porn)

I speak of the NPC player, the Robot, the non-player who has scripted lines of text dialog that you interact with to solve mysteries, the ones who give you clues or the ones who play your arch nemesis.

Bethesda studios has made several games with an artificial intelligence engine called: Radiant. If you have ever seen this in play. The characters actually make decisions like whether to steal something or attack another NPC or attack you for that matter. They have a 30 point personality matrix and each character can have a few lines of text or hours of dialog.

With that level of AI, wouldn't it be interesting to have NPCs playing those roles people don't want to play (most the time)primarily low caste workers in SL Gor?

Sim owners could design insanely intricate plots without worrying about people meta-gaming.

Let say you could have companions and real guards who would protect you in game. Women could have a real Bot to protect them. Simple as someone attacking them and Tarl 4.0 (with some better dialog than 'why wont you die!???') would jump in and try to kick their ass.

Now for the poll: Would you play with the robots?
Erik
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Re: Innovative thinking... Non Player Characters with A.I.

Postby Erik » Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:35 pm

The most recent state of the grid blog post by Rod Humble says outright they will be implementing scripted avatars for NPC (and other) purpose uses. So this little ditty you wrote is actually not far from the truth in SL (I figure about a year if we're lucky.)

In short: it's coming soon to SL. Personally I think they' work best as silence walking scenery to give the immersion of crowds going about their business in a city. As for actually role playing with one? You can create an AI Avatar using the ALICE engine already (been available for at least three years now).

In fact on my Ari account I actually had a "magic" HUD that had an AI based on ALICE and it was utter hoot to chat with.
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Rayzor McAuley
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Re: Innovative thinking... Non Player Characters with A.I.

Postby Rayzor McAuley » Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:02 pm

Erik wrote:The most recent state of the grid blog post by Rod Humble says outright they will be implementing scripted avatars for NPC (and other) purpose uses. So this little ditty you wrote is actually not far from the truth in SL (I figure about a year if we're lucky.)

In short: it's coming soon to SL. Personally I think they' work best as silence walking scenery to give the immersion of crowds going about their business in a city. As for actually role playing with one? You can create an AI Avatar using the ALICE engine already (been available for at least three years now).

In fact on my Ari account I actually had a "magic" HUD that had an AI based on ALICE and it was utter hoot to chat with.


This is what I was thinking a few weeks ago when I posted the thread about NPC populations. However, I do like what Hawt said about having them as escorts/traveling companions.
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Harlequin
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Re: Innovative thinking... Non Player Characters with A.I.

Postby Harlequin » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:09 pm

Its all doable now, really.
Just scripting themw ould be... ugh. Freaking tedious. But with raycast, etc? Yeah, all doable. We've tested something that isn't quite an "npc" per se, but drones that sweep randomized areas, run engagement patterns, and engage enemies...

But really, you're looking at having to find a scripter willing to put in the time and pain to do an NPC. They're out there.
I just wouldn't do it if you put a gun to my head >.<
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Glaucon
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Re: Innovative thinking... Non Player Characters with A.I.

Postby Glaucon » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:35 pm

It all depends on what you want them to do, really.

AI is still in it's infancy, in many ways. Sure, you can script robots to do a lot. And if you add dialogue trees and stuff, they can certainly be a part of an immersive environment. See RPGs, as Hawt said. But... they can only play back what people put in. They cannot 'talk'. Understanding an 'emote', even a really really simple one would be a far stretch, with AI being what it is today. Not something computers can do, at this time. Playing chess is one thing, doing RP is many many times more complicated. For a computer, at least.

So, if they do implement NPC's in SL (which is long overdue, though you CAN use 'bots' for some limited purposes), expect them to be ones you cannot really engage in RP, but more like silent presences. In theory, though, those AI-controlled NPC's COULD engage in metered combat (like they do in games) and such. However... programming stuff like that IS pretty hard. Realistic combat behaviour is the cutting edge of game AI programming. Would LL be able to come up with something good on this front, or at least with the scripting options to allow SL's creatives to do so? I am not sure. And even then, you'd need some pretty clever programmers before you'd have NPC's showing the kind of behavior that is featured in combat-oriented games. But... this is quite possible.

Would silent but combat capable NPC's have a purpose in RP? I think so. Having an 'escort' that can actually fight? Very common in many RPG games. Guards, low caste citizens filling the streets... all possible, in theory, at the moment. Heck, it IS already possible, if you use bot accounts for it. After all, you could use any external program to steer these bots. You can already have bots 'walk around' in set patters, follow you, stuff like that. And 'aim' at particular characters, even, or have them say something by remote controlling them through IM. It is all a bit tricky, but it can be done. So... yeah, if they expand on this, I'd expect to see more 'robot' controlled NPCs in gor.

Of course, when and/or if (when in my opinion, but some question the 'if' of it) they come up with Turing-test-passing AI (computers that talk in a way that cannot be distinguished from a human typist, basically), the options of NPCs in RP would... explode. I am kind of still hoping they will crack that one before I turn belly up, because games with such AI... would simply rock. 8-)

Would I refuse to RP with such 'NPC's, silent or no? Of course not. I 'RP' with non sentient NPC's all the time, in games. And last I checked, the 'characters' in books and movies etc. weren't really 'alive' either. Yet, I have no problem in enjoying their RP. :)
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Innovative thinking... Non Player Characters with A.I.

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:42 pm

I already created several scripts that could be used for NPC escorting / guarding of FW or areas. Creating patrols should not be too hard either.

I don't think it'll be a good addition to BtB Gor though which already lacks "combattants" as it is. And having a chance on getting shot or hit by a NPC guard everytime you attack a FW would just turn FW into "automated femlaws" no? :P
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Glaucon
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Re: Innovative thinking... Non Player Characters with A.I.

Postby Glaucon » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:54 pm

Draco wrote:I already created several scripts that could be used for NPC escorting / guarding of FW or areas. Creating patrols should not be too hard either.

I don't think it'll be a good addition to BtB Gor though which already lacks "combattants" as it is. And having a chance on getting shot or hit by a NPC guard everytime you attack a FW would just turn FW into "automated femlaws" no? :P


GE-gor plays gor as a 'level playing field' combat game, with each person representing exactly that. Presumably, that is why they ban my favorite gorean bird from their sims, don't enable male-female differences, and such. It is a RP/combat game, and NPC's would likely be seen as 'cheating'.

BTB gor doesn't play that game. 'Unfairness' is part of the world. There are NPC guards in cities now (which justifies the raid rules, I guess). If people started to bring these NPC followers along, though, I'd imagine that there would emerge rules about such NPC's not being overpowered, compared to human players.

And no... honestly. A FW with an NPC escort would not be the same as a 'femlaw', for me. If a group of FW were to storm the city walls letting their 'escorts' raid the city, then, yes... that would be something else. :mrgreen:
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Anarch Allegiere
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Re: Innovative thinking... Non Player Characters with A.I.

Postby Anarch Allegiere » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:12 pm

Glaucon Delphis wrote: And no... honestly. A FW with an NPC escort would not be the same as a 'femlaw', for me. If a group of FW were to storm the city walls letting their 'escorts' raid the city, then, yes... that would be something else. :mrgreen:


That would mean that a FW RPing an NPC guard while shooting the arrows herself (pretending they are from the guard) and swinging the guard's sword could be an acceptable compromise then to let intersim raiding to happen between GE & BtB groups. :P

What's the difference between a FW emoting for her NPC guard in RP and fighting for her NPC guard anyway eh? Besides the one thing being text and the other one being the combat meter equivalent...
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Glaucon
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Re: Innovative thinking... Non Player Characters with A.I.

Postby Glaucon » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:13 pm

Maybe FW could have whole groups of NPC's with them, and so could Ubars, commanders and such, letting them do the fighting. Mobile armies of Gor. RTS Gor.

Though, that WOULD give FW a definate advantage. As they are the only ones in SL Gor that can give birth to 'free men', they will be the 'zerg spawn' bases, I guess. Which would make 'capturing FW' one of the most important strategies. A true "All your FW are belong to me now" kind of thing. :)
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Claude Belgar
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Re: Innovative thinking... Non Player Characters with A.I.

Postby Claude Belgar » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:07 am

NPCs were created by men.
They evolved.
They rebelled.
There are many copies.
And they have a plan.

:hiding:
"when all the books show that Gorean seldom change of home stone."Sasi.

"I have never said that the books stated that Gorean seldom change of homestone."Sasi.

Sasi caught lying between her teeth.

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