Slave Training

Discussions related to Kajira, Kajirus, Bonds and Thralls.
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Kaitlin
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Kaitlin » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:00 pm

Victualia wrote:That is for me exactly the point but counting for the Free. I started my character to learn, I have not been a slave for years and thought I'll give it a try. Most of what I did from there on was training myself to make it easier for others. But I came to a point where my character was stucking, I could not go on, I needed help in training, but there was no one willing to give it and/or it was a problem of timezones. Perhaps as a slave I am there to fullfill fantasies, but sorry, they have to work to mold me into what they want. :D


I'm not sure I understand this so I'll ask. Where did you find yourself stuck and what do you believe has to be done to mold you? Are you talking about with an owner?
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Victualia
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Victualia » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:20 pm

Kaitlin wrote:Where did you find yourself stuck and what do you believe has to be done to mold you? Are you talking about with an owner?


I cannot train myself to feel like a slave, I am barbarian, I can train myself to serve, positions, Gorean language, but it stucked in feeling like a slave. Due to roleplay Vic was, as I stated before, in the "Rebellion of Compliance". She was obeying, but she was not feeling anything.

I do not talk about an Owner, I talk about any Free that was approaching me, expecting me to be like any other slave, without putting any effort in it. Very much like Conall I thought/think: I am not here to fullfill your fantasies, if you can't put anything into it.

It also had a lot of advantage later and I did not even want to change it, for different reasons, so the moment I met someone, who I felt was able to change that, I had to move on. But that is a complete different story :mrgreen: .
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Kaitlin » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:40 pm

Victualia wrote:
Kaitlin wrote:Where did you find yourself stuck and what do you believe has to be done to mold you? Are you talking about with an owner?


I cannot train myself to feel like a slave, I am barbarian, I can train myself to serve, positions, Gorean language, but it stucked in feeling like a slave. Due to roleplay Vic was, as I stated before, in the "Rebellion of Compliance". She was obeying, but she was not feeling anything.

I do not talk about an Owner, I talk about any Free that was approaching me, expecting me to be like any other slave, without putting any effort in it. Very much like Conall I thought/think: I am not here to fullfill your fantasies, if you can't put anything into it.


Why wouldn't they expect you to be like any other slave? By the time a barbarian slave was sold or exposed to others they would be just that...like any other slave. I think part of the problem with SL Gor is far too many barbarian slaves...a role I think only the most advanced/experienced player pulls off with any realism...and this expectation you are somehow supposed to be forced into feeling like a slave after your initial acquisition still puzzles me. A barbarian slave who was taught the language, serving, and a host of other things (standard practice) would also understand fully their status. I'm not sure if you FTB'd this portion of your advancement in your role of played it out but it strikes me as odd that one facet would be neglected.

It could be that I am still not understanding you well. A free that you come upon in RP wouldn't make any distinction in their expectations just because you are a barbarian. Now if this were a personal owner they may mold and train you to their own tastes but why would anyone else put forth the effort? I don't believe their fantasy in random use of a slave they don't own involves transforming them in anyway. It is possible that could happen but I would find it a rarity.
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Victualia
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Victualia » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:49 pm

I meant there is the outside and the inside, and you did not understand what I meant, and I was seemingly not able to explain it :-)

I try again, sorry, it is sometimes my language making it harder.

Yes I know there are many barbarians, but I took the role BECAUSE I am a very experiences roleplayer and know exactly what I do. Wehn I speak about expectations, then I mean they expected me to react and feel like any other slave, which was... due to roleplay.. not possible..

Rebellion of Compliance is an important hint of how I was, it is from the books. If you read "Captive of Gor, you know that training of positions and other stuff is only one part to make a slave. I was stucked in Elinors state. And there is nothing I could (and wanted) do myself to get out of it, which was fine. I really enjoyed exactly that. What I do not enjoy is, that Frees could not simply handle it the way it was, due to roleplay, without insulting me and my typist and telling me to feel how they wanted me to play it :-)

Status and feeling are simply two different things, and it was very BtB to play it that way. I did not expect any free to mold me, I expected those who wanted a certain reaction, emotion, feeling from me to roleplay something to get it. I hope this makes it clearer now :-)
Last edited by Victualia on Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Mat » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:00 pm

Sure the barbarian would be broken trained etc before being sold.... potentially some men do like the challenge. However I do find it odd the notion that someone should go from barbarian / untrained to the trained slave ready to be sold in a matter of minutes. If someone is not willing to go threw the hassle of breaking and training a barbarian than they should avoid them to just snap your fingers and say you are now a trained slave seems silly to me.
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Victualia » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:34 pm

Mat wrote: If someone is not willing to go threw the hassle of breaking and training a barbarian than they should avoid them to just snap your fingers and say you are now a trained slave seems silly to me.


Good point. I think the main problem was that most expect a slave to be a stereotype. Mostly slaves are seen as siderole anyways, and then a slave who is not exactly acting as they expected is confusing them. Gladly some found it fun to have something different and for those moments I loved my role.
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Kaitlin » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:58 pm

Victualia wrote:Yes I know there are many barbarians, but I took the role BECAUSE I am a very experiences roleplayer and know exactly what I do. Wehn I speak about expectations, then I mean they expected me to react and feel like any other slave, which was... due to roleplay.. not possible..

Rebellion of Compliance is an important hint of how I was, it is from the books. If you read "Captive of Gor, you know that training of positions and other stuff is only one part to make a slave. I was stucked in Elinors state. And there is nothing I could (and wanted) do myself to get out of it, which was fine. I really enjoyed exactly that. What I do not enjoy is, that Frees could not simply handle it the way it was, due to roleplay, without insulting me and my typist and telling me to feel how they wanted me to play it :-)

Status and feeling are simply two different things, and it was very BtB to play it that way. I did not expect any free to mold me, I expected those who wanted a certain reaction, emotion, feeling from me to roleplay something to get it. I hope this makes it clearer now :-)


I don't think any player should be expected to react or their character feel in a prescribed way but aren't you just as guilty in expecting them to respond to your roleplay or offer you roleplay in a certain way? You have established that you expected them to somehow do more in RP to gain the response that would be normal for a gorean slave. Some may choose to move on which would seem a good thing for all involved.

As for the comparison to Elinor her issue was pretty simple...she needed to be branded properly and fucked. After that point she was very clearly a slave even if she had a rather interesting journey up until that point. It would be an interesting story to play out but I still struggle to see how it dictates different treatment.
Prime Bbcode Spoiler Show Prime Bbcode Spoiler:
I thought she might have a tendency at present to be a bit short-tempered or nasty, perhaps having been raised in too luxurious or pampering a background, or from obtaining her way too frequently or too easily, perhaps from fearful domestics or indulgent parents, but I effected nothing critical. A whip can quickly take that out of a woman. In the hands of a competent master I had little doubt she would come about quickly. I recalled a slave I had once owned for a time, named Elinor. To be sure, she had been well mastered, and well understood her collar, before she came into my possession. She was now well owned, as I understood it, by a tarnsman of Treve, one named Rask.


Just to clarify, my reply wasn't intended to state that you were not playing your role in a BTB fashion or you were not experienced since my comment on barbarian play was very general. I just failed to understand how random Masters would be expected to contribute to your slave training other than just treating you as a slave.
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Victualia » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:11 pm

Kaitlin wrote:I don't think any player should be expected to react or their character feel in a prescribed way but aren't you just as guilty in expecting them to respond to your roleplay or offer you roleplay in a certain way? You have established that you expected them to somehow do more in RP to gain the response that would be normal for a gorean slave. Some may choose to move on which would seem a good thing for all involved.


*sighs* I did not said I expect them to do anything. I said I expect them to do soemthing IF they want me to act in a certain way, completely different story. Other then hat I am acting of course like a Gorean slave. Again, it is about feelings, reactions, that are not coming with a simple training. I hope I said it this time more clear.

Kaitlin wrote:As for the comparison to Elinor her issue was pretty simple...she needed to be branded properly and fucked. After that point she was very clearly a slave even if she had a rather interesting journey up until that point. It would be an interesting story to play out but I still struggle to see how it dictates different treatment.


Again, it does not dictate a different treatment. Only when you want something, like Rask wanted her to give in and gave her what turned her into a slave for him. And that is exactly what I talk about all the time. You do not give, you do not receive. I give as much of my part, as I am able to, then it is the Frees part to answer to it and give his/hers part. That is what I call roleplay :-).


Kaitlin wrote:Just to clarify, my reply wasn't intended to state that you were not playing your role in a BTB fashion or you were not experienced since my comment on barbarian play was very general. I just failed to understand how random Masters would be expected to contribute to your slave training other than just treating you as a slave.


See above, WHEN random Masters expect me to act in a certain way, that my role is not able to, due to the circumstances I was not broken in, trained, whatever... THEN I expect them to either deal with a reaction they might not expect, or to move on, or to treat me in a way that would turn me in the way they want me to be.

I can not please everyone in changing my roleplay according to the different fantasies they have. All I could do by myself was done properly.

So coming back to the topic. Ther is no general slave training that will suit everyone and every role :-)
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Lacey » Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:01 pm

Without going into too much detail, I will say that this topic is rather interesting to me because I'm beginning to help with one of those IC training places. It was actually my idea, and the first slaver there is rolling with it because he agrees and it just fits his roleplay for me to do most of the training. I've opted out, a very unorganized as far as OOC goes style. What I mean, I didn't sit down with a notecard and fill in what they are going to know, how I'm going to teach it, and ect.


I'm finding the roleplay done that way enjoyable. I've taught positions when one girl needed it to be taught. I taught not to break position when placed in one, when one girl did. I've even taught them not to bob up and down when walking, all IC. I told them to "stay on their toes I don't have all day." When I stopped and a few were dropped to the ground, they got in trouble for, "not staying on their toes" as I had told them to do. They've been in a coffle (which lasted all of five seconds cause everyone had to go eat lunch), but most said they'd never been in one. I have "feeding time" where they all eat their gruel, one has been roleplaying for three years and had said no one has ever fed her gruel! Fact is, she couldn't remember the last time she had actually ate in roleplay!

Anyway, I got into a good discussion (somewhat), with one of the girls from the hub. Then I crashed, nice place in there it's like a big costume party with people shouting at one another. I really realized something, the creative edge is almost gone completely anymore. I'm going to summerize the discussion.

ME: It's a private slave house, with IC training. Without the notes and the boredom that comes with it. It's actually RP.

Her: In so and so city? I started there, heard it got sold. Have lots of fond memories from there.

Me: I didn't know that there was an old one. Anyway me and other dude are running it, most the training is left to me because it fits his roleplay situtation for it to be like that. Eventually you would be sold at the block, he does that. I train and he does the selling.

Her: I'm fully trained.

Me: Did you rp train or with notecards? Most the girls that have joined, did the research stuff, they just want the roleplay for actual training.

Her: I've done everything been in gor for five years.

Me: Well some of them are rping excelled in certian areas and are going to RP teach to the other girls in the slave house. Since you did five years in gor, maybe you want to try a different character?

(it gets kind of off balance here, I'm not sure why.)

Her: How long have you been in gor? Do you even know what your talking about?

Me: I know plenty about gor. I went on about how I think the creative edge has flown from the window when it comes to gor because people are overorganizing everything. People end up auto trained at everything from being a bath girl to being able to pick the fields as well. I also mention people are auto trained for castes as well. I add at the end that the girls in gor are sick and tired of being auto trained waitresses.

Her: She flips out because I said slaves are auto trained waitresses.

Me: tells her that that is what they keep saying people turn them into, and it is boring for them.

Her: Says most might be bored but she knows how to make it fun.

Me: Tells her that maybe she could be excelled in that area, and rp teach. That I don't know why people try to disect and find problems for what I'm doing here (she isn't the first one, Most people are reguarding the IC way as almos a misfortune like wasted space or something), I'm just trying to make a fun envirement for slaves. So that they can have roleplay, that isn't empty sitting in a corner with a million notes on their screens.

Then I crashed. I guess the purpose of sumarizing up what we talked about is this. Why do people flip out over a change that might be for the best? A fun change, that doesn't include requiring people to be stuck learning things that don't even come from the books just to be what role they want. It's roleplay for them, without all that nonesense.
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Kaitlin
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Re: Slave Training

Postby Kaitlin » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:58 am

Lacey wrote:I guess the purpose of sumarizing up what we talked about is this. Why do people flip out over a change that might be for the best? A fun change, that doesn't include requiring people to be stuck learning things that don't even come from the books just to be what role they want. It's roleplay for them, without all that nonesense.


I won't go with the easy answer and say "it was the hub" since I think you have a valid point. I think it really just comes down to a lack of imagination about a given role...or any role. Thinking outside the box is rare.
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