Food for thought on Slaves and Spare time.

Discussions related to Kajira, Kajirus, Bonds and Thralls.
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Sasi
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Re: Food for thought on Slaves and Spare time.

Postby Sasi » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:19 pm

Yes Ceri, you are right, it's also our responsability to make mentalities change.

But let's face some realities:

- Sim owners make these rules, they're convinced they are the best. When you try a discussion, and especially if you play a slave, they will likely shrug at you, tell you to find another sim, and call you a princess slave.

- Many slave players have a private owner. Often they don't read the rules, they don't give a shit as they spend most of their time with their RP partner.

- Most "city slaves" players are perfectly happy, they come live their BDSM fantasies in a more exotic environment than the average BDSM sim, they have been told that a kajira serves and obeys and it's enough for their enjoyment.

- Most people in SL Gor didn't really read the books. They stuck by the basics, "slaves are animal, must be of exquisite beauty and perfectly obedient, they are happy with their collar, men lead, rule, command, FW know their place". Try after to point to them that finally, when you read the books, it's a bit more complex and that black and white model doesn't blindly apply.

- For most people, IC and OOC separation = No OOC chat in open chat, no OOC comment in an IC post...

- Schools (Gorean Campus, Port Haifa, Gorean University...) are harmful to SL Gor... They never teach about the IC and OOC separation (I remember two very lame classes from Port Haifa and Gorean Campus which were supposed to teach this point) and often, mix IC and OOC (people required to behave IC in all times while attending these classes when the content is obviously OOCly). They are very confusing to new RPers.

- Those like us who have a strong knowledge of the Gorean environment, who are strict RPers, who separate their character from their real person and want a real OOC equality are a minority... And they finally never gathered on a project to make things change (there is strength in unity). I saw even on these forums people say "Yes it's crap, but their sim their rules"... With such statement, things never change and if you want to play a slave character, you will likely have to deal with the crap, whatever the sim you join (and your choice of decent sims is very very limited).

I personally don't have an issue about how people want to play their role, if a slave player wants to play a cookie cutter, the perfect doormat, a waitress and chore machine, it's her right. I just wish to have the right to choose how I want to play my character, without being strongly limited by crap rules, even non BTB requirements and being called a princess slave (OOC insult, actually).

And yes, like Leah... As soon as I am done with my current stuff, it's as FW that I will maybe return to Gor and give up my attempt to play a slave. There is not just the fact to be unable to control our own RP, but also I can no longer accept to be considered like a second class SL Resident....
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Lacey
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Re: Food for thought on Slaves and Spare time.

Postby Lacey » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:30 am

I'm just going to come out and say it. Even if rules like that do not exist in the sim your playing on the slave characters still act like they are there. Maybe it is because they are used to people making them play like that or maybe they are afraid everyone will just kill them if they do not play like that, I do not know.

It gets annoying. I try to play with something for them to do besides say "Yes Mistress" but most just do that anyway. They are also really quick to get upset I'm rping my woman to treat them as their character, a slave too. I actually find it really difficult to role play with a slave. Either they've completely lost the constraints of their character or it becomes very dull when their emotes only contain "Yes Mistress." It is not even an emote. In all my years as a free woman I have only role played with maybe two slave role players and found it fun.
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FeorieFrimon
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Re: Food for thought on Slaves and Spare time.

Postby FeorieFrimon » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:50 pm

I remember Bear saying awhile ago that slave charecters, often times, add nothing to a scene. It was about that time I decided to make a space alt and find out if that was true.

The truth is, playing a slave is hard.

Generally speaking, if you've played a slave character for the sex, you find that the FW are getting most of the 'tail' in your sim.

As a slave you get stuck getting endless drinks, or called lazy because you didn't jump to get drinks for anyone that happened by. When you do get the drinks, half the time you are told you didn't serve it right, or were suppose to spread your legs or wiggle your breasts or whatever.

You are constantly being disciplined for something, by perfect strangers, and often iver concepts you couldn't possibly control. There is an invisible list of expectations with every free person you RP with, and all of them are different and based on what -they- think a good slave should be.

My experience, as a slave, is that many people don't know how to rp with them other than to bang them or ask then for food or drink, which honestly, is a shame. Some of my favorite RPerson have been slaves, and I commend them because the role is hard to get any real story going. I've been playing Nutmeg in a torvie sim for almost 6 months and still have no real storyline happening, and that's not for lack of chrecter depth.

Hang in there slave girls. Keep on keepin' on.
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Re: Food for thought on Slaves and Spare time.

Postby Tamar Luminos » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:54 pm

I wish I could get all of you into a sim and...I dunno. Get the Slave Mafia going or something. Something interesting for slave characters. There's too many cool people and good roleplayers who've tried to play slave characters in the past and it's a damned shame the role is so broken in SL Gor.
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Re: Food for thought on Slaves and Spare time.

Postby Sabina Takakura » Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:28 pm

FeorieFrimon wrote:The truth is, playing a slave is hard.

Generally speaking, if you've played a slave character for the sex, you find that the FW are getting most of the 'tail' in your sim.

As a slave you get stuck getting endless drinks, or called lazy because you didn't jump to get drinks for anyone that happened by. When you do get the drinks, half the time you are told you didn't serve it right, or were suppose to spread your legs or wiggle your breasts or whatever.

You are constantly being disciplined for something, by perfect strangers, and often iver concepts you couldn't possibly control. There is an invisible list of expectations with every free person you RP with, and all of them are different and based on what -they- think a good slave should be.


So much this! I quit playing my last slave character because I was actually told IC that slaves were only for work. That if someone wanted sex, they'd bang their "mate" and why was I standing there talking when there were chores to be done in some random place where no one else was at?
OOOooookkkaayyyyyy.

It's a chicken and egg thing, though. We don't reward the players that are coming up with amazing stories, because those players are probably wisely hiding away from the general masses, so the general masses just get derpy.
Same with free though, too. While yes, I see far more free men and women with stories, I also see quite a bit of ....
"Tal."
"Sure."
etc, and not any actual story, just reactionary responses.
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Sasi
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Re: Food for thought on Slaves and Spare time.

Postby Sasi » Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:47 pm

Ah, I'm not the only one who noticed that FW get more sex than slave girls, I see... It puzzles me, to see so many love stories between FW and FM, when slaves are mostly kept as waitresses and chore machines... If you play a slave and tries ICly to get sexually, to seduce men, you're OOC ashamed.... It's fucking ridiculous. I don't get why many kajirae say that they don't play the role just for sex, since actually, sex seldom happens, most men will fuck their FC.

And Feorie nailed it... RP a slave is very very difficult. I made an experience myself and it was horrible... Having to state that I didn't want to spend my whole time doing chores and playing waitress, that no, I didn't look for being the perfect slave for the purpose to be bought made me a princess. Not to mention that I had always to make clear that calling me "girl" was not an acceptable way to address me when OOC (IMs, chat group...)

Else, sometimes, I am thinking of making a group, for disccusions about the role, to educate people about slave RP, a group opened to all roles, with quotes posted for discussions and make that group known by advertising it in other Gorean groups... Just, I am a bit too busy actually... But if some people are interested, we could join our efforts.
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DarbyDollinger
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Re: Food for thought on Slaves and Spare time.

Postby DarbyDollinger » Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:35 am

A lot of people don't know how to roleplay with slaves. And in the defense, I wonder if a lot of slave RPers know what they want to roleplay, or if they do know they're very quiet about it. And for many reasons, a lot of slave RPers won't take the lead in a scene in the way that a FW might.
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Re: Food for thought on Slaves and Spare time.

Postby Leah » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:29 am

DarbyDollinger wrote:A lot of people don't know how to roleplay with slaves. And in the defense, I wonder if a lot of slave RPers know what they want to roleplay, or if they do know they're very quiet about it. And for many reasons, a lot of slave RPers won't take the lead in a scene in the way that a FW might.


You know, that's probably because when slave RPers do try to take the lead in a scene, they're generally slapped down OOC for it, or shoved off into a corner. It's a rare few who actually take the time to have meaningful stories with RPers portraying a slave role that don't involve fetching drinks or looking pretty in a corner.
This isn't fucking Survivor. We aren't a tribe.

If I won't put up with an in-character owner trying to control my OOC life, what makes you think I'll put up with you trying to do that?

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DarbyDollinger
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Re: Food for thought on Slaves and Spare time.

Postby DarbyDollinger » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:14 am

Are they rare?

The problem is that I've known slave RPers for years who are brilliant roleplayers who've never really initiated a story with me. Why that is is an interesting question because these same roleplayers have no problem doing it on their free women alts.

Is it all because they've been slapped down by neckbeards demanding black wine?
Qingwen
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Re: Food for thought on Slaves and Spare time.

Postby Qingwen » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:38 am

Yes I think they are rare.

I've been told as much by others I RP'd with, and in the couple months I played slave role, I found most free characters did not want an ongoing story when I expressed no interest in running off to join their personal harem. It's like they can only RP anything interesting with a slave they own, I suppose? Free range tavern girl is no good. I did have some fun ongoing stories with the other slave characters though, no problem there.

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